Welcome to the end of week 2! This is the place to comment on (roughly) pp 50-113 (p/v). That said, as last week rolled on, a lot of people dropped comments past the mark, to keep up with what they were reading that day. I thought that went great. So in the course of this week, feel free to comment on page 120, 130… Just use a little restraint on spoilers for later sections.
There was some confusion amongst prize-peoples regarding the first two weeks. In the spirit of loving-kindness that is the GRDM, we’re gonna count both of those two weeks as one, meaning if you commented Week 0, but not Week 1, you’re still a candidate for potential “Grand Poobah” status. Those who haven’t commented yet, don’t give up — highly regarded “Poobah” and “Big Poobah” status are still well within reach!
Hope everyone’s holding up OK. Me, it’s work, and I’m about 12 pages behind. But hell, that’s still about 94 pages farther than I’ve ever gotten before. Mainly I’ve been surprised how much fun there’s been along the way. More like a Hallucinatory Death Dance than a Deathmarch, methinks…
Next Tuesday: Let’s meet back up at page 167 ((195 in the Bantam edition) a week from today — it’s the section that ends: “Is God really Jewish?”
See you there, -CV
Keyword, week #2: Abreaction
the expression and emotional discharge of unconscious material (as a repressed idea or emotion) by verbalization especially in the presence of a therapist.
What do you make of all the sex? As of page 113, I’m wondering if it’s the inner correlate of the V2 rockets, another way for Pynchon to explore what happens when you tweak cause and effect, or the clean duality of zero and one. A lot of it is fetish sex, high heels, uniforms, etc.. as opposed to the let’s-be-natural free love kind. Is that to bring out the stimulus-response nature of human behavior more clearly? Put us at the level of Pointsman’s drooling dogs?
Maybe the abreaction would then be like the rocket blast–a ‘discharge’ of repressed material from an event that’s already happened in the past. Kind of a scientific version of Calvinist predestination (I didn’t remember how much religious stuff is in here)–you’re saved (or not) from the beginning of time, which turns your whole life into a type of abreaction.
And what if the ultimate turn-on is death?
Not sure where this is going, except toward a mug. Onward!
Glazed is my favorite. But if they’re all out of those, chocolate is pretty yummy too.
I admired the intensity of the Kenosha Kid and Hansel’nGretel episodes, but I confess to a great relief at reaching the shores of the Disgusting English Candy Drill. This whole scene is FUNNY, and another brilliant bit of writing in which the lists + the pace put me right into the moment. I don’t want to be a spoiler, so I’ll just say “mayonnaise”…and soldier on.
wow, and mayonnaise or “mayonaise” features in the resolution of Brautigan’s Trout fishing in America too… weird!
I would have come in ahead of Xian if my ****ing machine didn’t keep crashing on me. Curses!
Anyway, after all my whining about the increased page count, I have to admit that this was the perfect place to pause, because the almost-complete repetition of the sentence that opened the section wraps things up so perfectly.
A few random thoughts:
-“The Tarnished Crown” would be an excellent name for a pub.
-A young, hatted Malcolm X is on the cover of the latest Roots album, which is sitting here on my coffee table. Apparently, in his street hustler days he was known as “Detroit Red.”
-The Kenosha Kid = Trout Fishing in America?
-I want one of those Amanita cigarettes.
-Pynchon is one of those writers whom I suspect of occasionally throwing in made-up words just because he can. As a test, I decided to look up the word “cucurbitaceous,” which appears on p. 80 of the Viking edititon. After striking out on Webster’s and Google, I finally was able to ascertain that it refers to members of the “cucurbitaceae”, or flowering gourd, family. Which of course makes perfect sense in context, so Pynchon wins this round. Now all I need is an excuse to work “cucurbitaceous” into daily conversation.
…to expand on cucurbitaceous–the cucurbit is also a vessel or flask used for distillation, apparently related in some way to this type of gourd.
but if that doesn’t expand the possibilities for its use in daily conversation, here’s one of my favorites from this last stretch of the march–callipygian, aka, having shapely buttocks. just as much fun to say, plus, just guessing here, more opportunities for use in naturally evolving discussions…
Bill wrote: “…because the almost-complete repetition of the sentence that opened the section wraps things up so perfectly.”
I just caught up last night — got to 113. Of all the many cases where he starts us of in the dark and then switches the light on as the section closes, I think this was the most satisfying yet. I was forced to start reading the section over again just as soon as I finished it. Great stuff.
Had to respond to the idea of Pynchon making up words. TRP admits in the “Slow Learner” preface that he often used words and terms that he thought sounded cool without learning their meanings.
I doubt he made up many, if any, though.
BTW – The candy section always makes me laugh.
“I’m cold,” Snowden said softly. “I’m cold.”
“You’re going to be all right, kid,” Yossarian reassured him with a grin. “You’re going to be all right.”
“I’m cold,” Snowden said again in a frail, childlike voice. “I’m cold.”
Am suddenly interested in the whole “opposites” business going on in GR. Skimmed back through earlier pages and suddenly found Pirate’s motto (p. 10 of Penguin edition)–“C’est magnifique, mais ce n’est pas la guerre”–much more interesting. Yes, I had to look up the translation–“It’s magnificent, but it isn’t war.” (Rough translation of comment regarding Charge of the Light Brigade.) War, but not war. Throw in Pointsman’s zero-one mentality (connect that to Pavlov’s “ideas of the opposite”), Slothrop’s ancestors (Constant and Variable), the *White* Visitation and Operation *Black* Wing, the reversal of cause and effect (the sound of the V2’s approach arriving after the explostion), etc. Talk amongst yourselves. It’s 9:42 p.m. and I’m done for the night.
That reminds me, I’m curious if anyone else has come across anything particularly interesting among the many untranslated bits of various foreign languages. I know I could look them all up but I’m too damn lazy, and I’d rather piggyback on those of you who aren’t.
Also: I’m sensing that all Jeff’s posts are going to be about donuts. Does that count?
Bill wrote:
“Also: I’m sensing that all Jeff’s posts are going to be about donuts. Does that count?”
Answer: Unfortunately, yes.
Doomed. We’re all doomed!
lastly: boy I am lovin’ this book right now. We’ll see if it lasts…
on opposites–see dr vitz’s comment last week–
are the opposites the focus or are we meant to
think about all the stops inbetween? also, maybe
the ebb and flow of the story is like climbing a
switchback trail–we’re able to see more and more
of the view each time we reach a new resting place,
and the opposites are just particular vantage
points along the way? (not that it’s about
opposites, but i really felt this way reading recent
developments in the jessica and roger story.)
on language issues–i’m lazy about this also. but
happily there’s capt. marsupial’s website tip. see,
for example, “german translations” at
http://www.hyperarts.com/pynchon/gravity/extra/german.html
oops–miscredited–that was itto ogami’s excellent reference to the glossary.
Just got through (Penguin) pages 125-136 (in which, I think, we’re treated to a rumination on various ways life has changed during wartime, in particular as it relates to toys and toothpaste, all while Jessica and Roger (Rabit?) listen to the choir fantastic, and I’m suddenly reminded why this thing is called a Deathmarch ™. Hooboy!
Still, with all that uphill climbing, the next section’s bound to be a downward coast, right? right?
Onward!
I’m around 130/viking now. I remembered the wine-gums section as awesome from 20 years ago (reading snippets while driving a freight elevator in my summer job…), but it still exceeded expectations. Could be a one-act play, or MVT episode, almost as is… I’m fascinated by how much easier it is for me to plow thru this time, after 2 past failures long ago. Am I more patient or determined with age? It just hasn’t been as hard to cope with than I remembered.
Anybody else finding resonance between the V2’s and the war on terror? Seems like a major theme here is that humans are compelled to try and conquer uncertainty but inevitably fail. Like nation-building for the sake of American freedom…
But does Pynchon have any constructive suggestions??? Perhaps, hide somewhere and have as much sex as possible…
I noticed the Catch 22 similarity too, and to my surprise, found it was published in ’61, way before GR.
Hey, you fixed the Email field! Thanks!
e.’s “switchback trail” * comparison is very good. Some switchbacks lean back enough that you can look down on where you’ve been; at other times, when the hill is very steep or the trail winds upward in uneven stretches, you can’t see the trail behind you, only the long view. My GR experience so far this time has been the long view; I can’t see the details or significance of the immediate past few pages, but gradually I’m getting more of the vista. Lots of fog, still.
Yeah, tons of one-act possibilities in here. Unfortunately, most of the time I want to cast Steve Martin as Roger.
* And don’t you know, it was very apt that I originally typed “switchback trial”.
Well, I’m still here, still getting through this, but I have to admit I’m dying to ditch this for Rushdie’s “Ground Beneath Her Feet” which is sitting on my book shelf saying “Read me! Read me!” I’ll be strong, I promise.
Somebody get Jeff a cup of coffee to go with those donuts.
I almost collapsed on this here deathmarch, until a pep talk from drill sergeant Cecil put me back in line. The problem I’m having is that my time is so limited that when I finally get a chance to read—well, I don’t always want to have to *work* so dang hard. And I am having philosophical issues, debated internally, or sometimes externally, to myself, in line at the supermarket whlie waving my fists, about the value of literature that requires so much work/knowledge just to get through. Who is this book for? Why write this way? Is this just masturbation material for eggheads, out to prove how smart they are? This is how I feel when the book is pissing me off. But then, at other times, I’ll read a passage that I may not even necessarily understand, like The Kenosha Kid stuff, and just really have a good time with it as a piece of writing. My point? Errr…. I forget.
Meanwhile, while rebelling against GR, I read in two days “Right as Rain” by George Pelacanos, an outstanding mystery writer who also heavily involved in the last season of The Wire on HBO. And that, I think, is going to be my new strategy for surviving the deathmarch. Read *other books* for pleasure, read GR as some kind of science project/homework assignment. Or maybe….maybe….I should just read GR stoned??!
not too much to report on the gr march of death. i am working on making myself like this book otherwise i’ll never finish it. once that’s done the analysis will be more cutting edge and EXTREME!
has anyone considered the possibilities of another gigantous book for a gr death march post script? maybe an underworld trail of tears? any takers? nope? nope? tis a shame…
Too late to comment here? Perhaps.
I was going to share my favorite line of this bunch: “Tire tracks in the slush have turned to pearl, mellow pearl.”
In the spirit of your high-school english teacher, I love the the alliteration “tire tracks turned”, “tracks in the slush”, and its sudden loss into plosives and long liquid sounds – pearl, mellow pearl. Also the almost anapest of “ti-re Tracks” and the real “in the Slush” lead into the amphibrach “have Turned to”; I somehow love how they set up “pearl”. And then close with another anapest: mellow pearl.
Anyway, now that I’ve looked up my vocabulary words for the week, I’ll hop over to next week’s thread to blabber something about dodos and the apocalypse.
In response to bleu, I do think there should be another deathmarch after GR. And another after that. To qualify for the next one, you have to finish the last one standing up. And the numbers will dwindle with each successive march until….we’re….all…..gone.